'Our Culture Is Better'

Just want to rap about whatever you want and it doesn't fit any other category? Do it in here.

'Our Culture Is Better'

Unread postby Cap'n Billy » Sat Nov 29, 2008 11:08 am

I think anyone who would like to see what happens to its values when a country allows itself to be infiltrated by a significant number of Muslims would do well to read this piece. While the vast majority of politicians dance around this issue (Remember GWB after 9/11 saying, "Islam is a peaceful religion?), this is one of the few politicians alive today (although how long he will stay that way is problematic) who speaks the truth about that culture.

If I had to pick the most significant sentence in the article it would be this one:
As he sees it, the West suffers from an excess of toleration for those who do not share its tradition of tolerance.


By the way, perhaps one or two of you may enjoy listening to classical music while you browse the web. One of my favorite online stations, which so happens to be broadcast from this politician's native country, is this one. If that country experiences a further increase in Muslim immigration how long do you think they will be allowed to continue to broadcast this infidel music?

Here's another good one (which has the added advantage that English-speakers can read it). However, the first one has no narration at all, while the second announces the pieces in French and German, and perhaps Italian. However, you can see a schedule of pieces, as well as see what's currently playing, in English on the site.
"Throughout history, poverty is the normal condition of man. Advances which permit this norm to be exceeded are the work of an extremely small minority, frequently despised and often condemned. Whenever this tiny minority is kept from creating or is driven out of a society, the people then slip back into abject poverty." - Robert Heinlein (Truncated to fit)
User avatar
Cap'n Billy
Media GOD!
 
Posts: 1855
Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2006 5:20 pm
Location: South Carolina

'Our Culture Is Better'

Sponsor

Sponsor
 

Re: 'Our Culture Is Better'

Unread postby pubjohn47 » Sat Nov 29, 2008 12:36 pm

Cap'n Billy wrote:If I had to pick the most significant sentence in the article it would be this one:
As he sees it, the West suffers from an excess of toleration for those who do not share its tradition of tolerance.




The tradition of tolerance only started in the late 60s when Jim Crow laws were abolished

while certain islamic laws in the muslim world against pornography and abortion is appreciated by many christians around the world

The western world has had a 600 year head start on the muslim world but even then, America's civilizing influence only started in the late 60s after giving blacks full human rights.

We should be patient with the muslim world since they are about the equivalent of 14 th century christianity and yet today we see many secular muslim countries who do not follow sharia laws and that is progress
The powerful in the military/industrial complex are "laughing all the way to the bank " while Americans have to forgo a secure and healthier standard of living due to over a trillion dollars being looted every year by the greedy military/industrial complex, resulting in blowback policies that create more danger than safety for the American people
pubjohn47
Media GOD!
 
Posts: 3840
Joined: Sun May 20, 2007 8:54 am

Re: 'Our Culture Is Better'

Unread postby steve1633 » Sat Nov 29, 2008 5:36 pm

You're right cap'n and so is this maverick dutchmen. We in the west have a responsibility to maintain a land of free expression at any cost. This is a difficult task because it means that we must create an environment in which willing muslim women can wear burkahs in everyday life without feeling persecuted AND unwilling women from muslim families can safely deny the practice without serious threat from their family/community.

There is not doubt in my mind that we in America need to be vigilant against the movement toward extra rights for fundamentalist muslims. We also need to be vigilant against the same movement for fundamentalist christians and fundamentalist jews. The most important thing to remember is that this is supposed to be a country where any person can practice their religion but no person feels pressured by their government to practice a particular religion (or pressured to not practice a certain religions). Obviously this is a treacherous line to walk, but if you want to be the best nation on Earth you've got to accept the greatest cultural/political challenges in the world. I hope to god that the dutch can hold strong against the growing muslim influence because I do consider the Netherlands to be one of the most admirable nations on Earth. America is also on that short list, but with America my fear is more of a subjugation to fundamentalist christianity. In either case it's a situation where we have to realize that people, world wide, are not as religious as they used to be. The great religious establishments of old don't speak to most people's feelings these days but they still seek to exert the same dominant political control they've exerted over the past millenia. As long as we can all seperate personal feelings from the truth of tolerance than we have a chance, my main hope for Obama's presidency is that he will be able to engender this sort of attitude to the American people.

In any case. If you do like listening to music while online then I highly recommend Pandora.com. You get to make your own radio stations based on your favorite artists or songs. It's my favorite website by far.
Just remember, CWNelson is crazy and you don't have to buy any of his bibles. Hopefully if we ignore him he will go knock on another door.
steve1633
Media GOD!
 
Posts: 1526
Joined: Mon Jun 05, 2006 3:05 pm

Re: 'Our Culture Is Better'

Unread postby WeaponOfMassInstruction » Sat Nov 29, 2008 9:45 pm

While I normally detest the repeated flogging of a deceased equine, I'll repeat a suggestion that I have made more than once:

"America Alone" by Mark Steyn

It is an amazing read. It is also extraordinarily troubling, as it lays out an extraordinarily plausible course for the Islamification of the West, not through violent revolution but by a combination of biology and using the freedoms of the West against us.
"Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other views."
William F. Buckley, Jr.
User avatar
WeaponOfMassInstruction
Mod Team
 
Posts: 3854
Joined: Sun Jul 24, 2005 5:38 pm
Location: Alabama

Re: 'Our Culture Is Better'

Unread postby pubjohn47 » Sun Nov 30, 2008 3:58 am

WeaponOfMassInstruction wrote:While I normally detest the repeated flogging of a deceased equine, I'll repeat a suggestion that I have made more than once:

"America Alone" by Mark Steyn

It is an amazing read. It is also extraordinarily troubling, as it lays out an extraordinarily plausible course for the Islamification of the West, not through violent revolution but by a combination of biology and using the freedoms of the West against us.


As long as the islamification of the west gets rid of pornography and abortion, christians will be happy to live in such a society.

But in reality, Mark Steyn underestimates the power of hedonism and western progressive liberalism

The problem is , the world including the islamic world is steadily marching towards the hedonism of the west and not towards the anti-pornography and anti-abortion laws of the islamic world as can be seen by the number of muslim countries that have turned into secular non-sharia countries in the past two hundred years
The powerful in the military/industrial complex are "laughing all the way to the bank " while Americans have to forgo a secure and healthier standard of living due to over a trillion dollars being looted every year by the greedy military/industrial complex, resulting in blowback policies that create more danger than safety for the American people
pubjohn47
Media GOD!
 
Posts: 3840
Joined: Sun May 20, 2007 8:54 am

Re: 'Our Culture Is Better'

Unread postby Cap'n Billy » Sun Nov 30, 2008 10:25 am

Couple a' things:
Others may worry about "subjugation to fundamentalist christianity or jews," but that is the least of my concerns. I hope our security agencies don't use their limited resources to counter this non-existent threat either. And I would settle for a government that does not pressure people to practice a religion, which is what we now have, rather than a government making sure that "no person feels pressured by their government to practice a particular religion. Trying to stop deluded people from "feeling" like their government is doing something it's not is a mug's game.

And speaking of deluded people, I got a few yucks out of arguably the most deluded person who posts here saying that "As long as the islamification of the west gets rid of pornography and abortion, christians will be happy to live in such a society." I don't know about you, but this nominal Christian is no fan of abortion and pornography, and he most certainly would not be happy to live in a Muslim-dominated society, and in fact if he were to find himself so situated I doubt if he would live very long.

I read most of Steyn's columns although I haven't read the book, but I don't need to to see what Islam is doing to Europe. I just hope this country doesn't go down that road. It's you younger chaps' job to see that doesn't happen, I've done my duty to help protect this country against other threats during my lifetime and now I'm concentrating on enjoying the remaining time allotted to me. You've got the con, Messrs. Red, Cortese, Weapon, TerryeAnn, Sinatra, and others whose names don't readily come to mind. Try not to be distracted by the lunatic fringe that is so well represented here.
"Throughout history, poverty is the normal condition of man. Advances which permit this norm to be exceeded are the work of an extremely small minority, frequently despised and often condemned. Whenever this tiny minority is kept from creating or is driven out of a society, the people then slip back into abject poverty." - Robert Heinlein (Truncated to fit)
User avatar
Cap'n Billy
Media GOD!
 
Posts: 1855
Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2006 5:20 pm
Location: South Carolina

Re: 'Our Culture Is Better'

Unread postby Ruds » Sun Nov 30, 2008 10:38 am

Cap'n Billy wrote:Couple a' things:
Others may worry about "subjugation to fundamentalist christianity or jews," but that is the least of my concerns. I hope our security agencies don't use their limited resources to counter this non-existent threat either. And I would settle for a government that does not pressure people to practice a religion, which is what we now have, rather than a government making sure that "no person feels pressured by their government to practice a particular religion. Trying to stop deluded people from "feeling" like their government is doing something it's not is a mug's game.

And speaking of deluded people, I got a few yucks out of arguably the most deluded person who posts here saying that "As long as the islamification of the west gets rid of pornography and abortion, christians will be happy to live in such a society." I don't know about you, but this nominal Christian is no fan of abortion and pornography, and he most certainly would not be happy to live in a Muslim-dominated society, and in fact if he were to find himself so situated I doubt if he would live very long.

I read most of Steyn's columns although I haven't read the book, but I don't need to to see what Islam is doing to Europe. I just hope this country doesn't go down that road. It's you younger chaps' job to see that doesn't happen, I've done my duty to help protect this country against other threats during my lifetime and now I'm concentrating on enjoying the remaining time allotted to me. You've got the con, Messrs. Red, Cortese, Weapon, TerryeAnn, Sinatra, and others whose names don't readily come to mind. Try not to be distracted by the lunatic fringe that is so well represented here.


Cap'n Billy, you hit a home run on this, Porn, and Gay's have been with man since the beginning, Even Islam, Jewish and Christian's also other religions. To this day it is every high in Islam, it is under ground for fear of being killed.

Islamic take over of America is a slow process, we have let them in here they live amongst us, their children play with our children, they seek and get into our elected offices, Once in, in great numbers that's when they start to change our system, a slow take over as we Jew's and Christians are asleep at the wheel.
Last edited by Ruds on Sun Nov 30, 2008 12:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
I am a Renaissance man and a Native of the South West, Born of the tribe of Tarahumara, as wild as a South West slow hot wind. I am adventurous,ready to travel.... The key to my soul and if you can figure this out is, " I was born under a Silver Moon and I have the Soul of a Pirate"
User avatar
Ruds
Media GOD!
 
Posts: 1049
Joined: Fri Aug 22, 2008 7:21 am
Location: Disneyland California

Re: 'Our Culture Is Better'

Unread postby pubjohn47 » Sun Nov 30, 2008 11:49 am

Cap'n Billy wrote: he most certainly would not be happy to live in a Muslim-dominated society, and in fact if he were to find himself so situated I doubt if he would live very long. .


There are millions of non-muslims living peacefully in muslim dominated societies where pornography and abortion are not as rampant as in western dominated societies.

As for Mark Steyn, he has to realize that the march of hedonism and western progressive liberalism will overwhelm anything that the muslim world can ever produce in the western world
The powerful in the military/industrial complex are "laughing all the way to the bank " while Americans have to forgo a secure and healthier standard of living due to over a trillion dollars being looted every year by the greedy military/industrial complex, resulting in blowback policies that create more danger than safety for the American people
pubjohn47
Media GOD!
 
Posts: 3840
Joined: Sun May 20, 2007 8:54 am

Re: 'Our Culture Is Better'

Unread postby pubjohn47 » Sun Nov 30, 2008 11:56 am

Ruds wrote: Once in in great numbers that's when they start to change our system, a slow take over as we Jew's and Christians are asleep at the wheel.


There are several muslim countries that are secular and not islamist states;

so it is possible for muslims to eventually become as liberal as President Obama


but I rather live in an anti-pornography and anti-abortion muslim state than a progressive liberal western state as desired by President Obama
The powerful in the military/industrial complex are "laughing all the way to the bank " while Americans have to forgo a secure and healthier standard of living due to over a trillion dollars being looted every year by the greedy military/industrial complex, resulting in blowback policies that create more danger than safety for the American people
pubjohn47
Media GOD!
 
Posts: 3840
Joined: Sun May 20, 2007 8:54 am

Re: 'Our Culture Is Better'

Unread postby Ruds » Sun Nov 30, 2008 12:36 pm

Hi Cap'n Billy, I figure out this Idiot PJ, No matter what we say he will be contra, ..ie, we all know that the sky is blue, if we say it's blue, Peabrain PJ will say it's red and Bush caused all of the ills of the world, America is evil, he hate what we did, we killed Iragi's by making Al Qaeda blow up civilians, cut heads of of Iraqi's, "It's America and Bush's fault" What he is doing is stirring the pot to keep us answering his left wing kumbayaya ( I may have misspelled this?) loon postings. That is why I am not answering him any more.
I am a Renaissance man and a Native of the South West, Born of the tribe of Tarahumara, as wild as a South West slow hot wind. I am adventurous,ready to travel.... The key to my soul and if you can figure this out is, " I was born under a Silver Moon and I have the Soul of a Pirate"
User avatar
Ruds
Media GOD!
 
Posts: 1049
Joined: Fri Aug 22, 2008 7:21 am
Location: Disneyland California

Re: 'Our Culture Is Better'

Unread postby pubjohn47 » Sun Nov 30, 2008 3:23 pm

Ruds wrote:Bush caused all of the ills of the world, America is evil,


President Bush did not cause all the ills of the world

and America is not evil

but the US government is not helping you but rather taking your money and giving it to special interests

and thus your community's standard of living keeps going down, generation after genaration (ever noticed that in our cities, the traffic jams are getting worse ?, that is an example of our government's priorities going to special interests rather than making your life easier )
The powerful in the military/industrial complex are "laughing all the way to the bank " while Americans have to forgo a secure and healthier standard of living due to over a trillion dollars being looted every year by the greedy military/industrial complex, resulting in blowback policies that create more danger than safety for the American people
pubjohn47
Media GOD!
 
Posts: 3840
Joined: Sun May 20, 2007 8:54 am

Re: 'Our Culture Is Better'

Unread postby WeaponOfMassInstruction » Sun Nov 30, 2008 6:41 pm

As for Mark Steyn, he has to realize that the march of hedonism and western progressive liberalism will overwhelm anything that the muslim world can ever produce in the western world


Please Google "Great Britain+sharia law" and get back to me.

NM...here ya go:

http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=navclient&aq=t&ie=UTF-8&rlz=1T4ADBF_enUS292US294&q=Great+Britain%2bsharia+law

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/faith/article3328024.ece

Dr Williams argued, in a speech at the Royal Courts of Justice in London, for a “plural jurisdiction” that would allow Muslims to choose whether some legal disputes were resolved in secular or Sharia courts. He called for “constructive accommodation” over such issues as resolving marriage disputes.

Earlier, he told BBC Radio 4 that people should approach Islamic law with an open mind.

Although emphasising that there was no place for “extreme punishments” and discrimination against women, Dr Williams stressed the importance of making all communities “part of the public process” in order to limit any oppression.

There are nearly 1.6 million Muslims in Britain, representing 2.7 per cent of the total population. Sharia courts do exist, but they have no legal standing and their decisions are not binding.

Dr Williams said: “It seems unavoidable and, as a matter of fact, certain conditions of Sharia are already recognised in our society.”


This "Dr. Williams" is Rowand Williams....The Archbishop of Canterbury.

Now you might argue that Dr. Williams is saying merely that more civil-based disputes such as those related to marriage might be better dealt with for Muslims if sharia law is recognized. OK.....but what about "honor killings"? To Muslims- at least some of them- honor killings are a facet of "marriage disputes" and are permitted under some interpretations of sharia law. So should Britain permit Islamic law to deal with- which is to say 'approve of'- honor killings?

But let's take that a step further and move it 'across the Pond'.

IN the US Constitution, the right of government to sieze land for the common good and to justly compensate the owner for the land is recognized and validated- "Eminent Domain" is the legal term. It has long been recognized that government could take land from its owner if the purpose to which the government would use the land were soemthing that would benefit the common good- a road, bridge, hospital, etc.

But the Kelo v. New London decision by SCOTUS expanded the public good to include increasing the government's tax revenue. Clearly, there is no valid historical precedent to such a ruling...but that didn't stop SCOTUS from 'finding' one.

Those damn "emanations" from those damn "penumbra".

So might one argue that, as the concept of eminent domain was redefined and broadened here in the UIS, so might sharia law's recognition and influence be expanded in Great Britain?

Mark Steyn would say yes and I'd agree with him.

Hedonism has proven to be no impenetrable barrier to sharia gaining recogntion and standing in British courts so far. And, as the Muslim populations of most European countries expands much faster than does the native populations of those countries, will the tendencies of these expanded Muslim minorities be to assimilate? Or to seek to impose their values and customs on the native populations through use of the English court system in a perfectly legal manner?

Mark Steyn would- and has- said the latter and I completely agree with him.
"Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other views."
William F. Buckley, Jr.
User avatar
WeaponOfMassInstruction
Mod Team
 
Posts: 3854
Joined: Sun Jul 24, 2005 5:38 pm
Location: Alabama

Re: 'Our Culture Is Better'

Unread postby pubjohn47 » Sun Nov 30, 2008 9:21 pm

WeaponOfMassInstruction wrote:
As for Mark Steyn, he has to realize that the march of hedonism and western progressive liberalism will overwhelm anything that the muslim world can ever produce in the western world


the statement still stands because you will never find any western country in which sharia overwhelms the progression of hedonism and the western progressive liberalism of President Obama

If Sharia is imposed, its only imposed on muslims.

just as Jews are governed by Jewish courts in Great Britain.

non-muslims in muslim countries are not governed by sharia


WeaponOfMassInstruction wrote: but what about "honor killings"? To Muslims- at least some of them- honor killings are a facet of "marriage disputes" and are permitted under some interpretations of sharia law. So should Britain permit Islamic law to deal with- which is to say 'approve of'- honor killings?


It would be impossible to allow honor killings in western countries when several muslim countries have made honor killing illegal and punishable by imprisonment or death

the world is steadily moving towards more human rights and not less (eg the relaxation of restrictions on christians started in 1839 in the Ottoman Empire, the equality of all subjects regardless of religion and in 1856 the jizya tax on non-muslims was abolished )

Honor killing is a tragic and cruel part of some muslim cultures, but its the exception and not the rule to kill due to honor, since muslim girls pride themselves in being virgins on their wedding night.

The United Nations Population Fund estimates that the annual worldwide total of honour-killing victims may be as high as 5,000 compared to the total of 1.5 billion muslims worldwide;

Compare that figure with the murder of 710 innocent children under the age of 5 in 1995, just in the United States, who are more likely to be killed by their parents than anyone else.

FBI crime statistics show that in 1999 parents were responsible for 57 percent of these murders, with family friends and acquaintances accounting for another 30 percent and other family members accounting for 8 percent.

ref; http://www.slate.com/id/2063086/

In 1995 about 400 white children, 300 black children and 10 from other races under the age of 5 were murdered in the US ( about 14 in total a week and the numbers exclude the children above the age of 5 who are murdered in the US)

ref : http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/homicide/children.htm#kids



WeaponOfMassInstruction wrote: And, as the Muslim populations of most European countries expands much faster than does the native populations of those countries, will the tendencies of these expanded Muslim minorities be to assimilate? Or to seek to impose their values and customs on the native populations through use of the English court system in a perfectly legal manner?

Mark Steyn would- and has- said the latter and I completely agree with him.


An Australian Liberal MP has warned that the introduction of the abortion drug RU-486 could lead Australia to becoming a predominantly Muslim country.

Abortions and birth control is causing the decline in western populations.

In muslim dominated countries, the non-muslim populations are not governed by Sharia so I do not see why muslims in western countries would want to impose sharia on non-muslims.

Sharia only governs muslims

For example, in Malaysia, a non-muslim girl can wear the skimpiest shorts in states governed by sharia
The powerful in the military/industrial complex are "laughing all the way to the bank " while Americans have to forgo a secure and healthier standard of living due to over a trillion dollars being looted every year by the greedy military/industrial complex, resulting in blowback policies that create more danger than safety for the American people
pubjohn47
Media GOD!
 
Posts: 3840
Joined: Sun May 20, 2007 8:54 am

An example of their 'culture'

Unread postby Cap'n Billy » Mon Dec 01, 2008 9:44 am

Image
Bollywood's "new heartthrob" Imran Khan, who proudly posed for paparazzi donning a T-shirt with Mr. Bush's face sandwiched between the words "International Terrorist" in Mumbai (Bombay) while his co-religionists were massacring every Christian and Jew they could get ahold of a few blocks away.
http://washingtontimes.com/news/2008/dec/01/six-degrees-of-imran-khan/
Mr. Khan - a member of India's Muslim minority - chose not to mock international terrorists who kill in the name of Allah. He and his co-religionists know the deadly results for those who do.

http://www.rediff.com/news/2008/nov/30mumterror-doctors-shocked-at-hostagess-torture.htm
"Of all the bodies, the Israeli victims bore the maximum torture marks. It was clear that they were killed on the 26th itself. It was obvious that they were tied up and tortured before they were killed. It was so bad that I do not want to go over the details even in my head again," he said.
"Throughout history, poverty is the normal condition of man. Advances which permit this norm to be exceeded are the work of an extremely small minority, frequently despised and often condemned. Whenever this tiny minority is kept from creating or is driven out of a society, the people then slip back into abject poverty." - Robert Heinlein (Truncated to fit)
User avatar
Cap'n Billy
Media GOD!
 
Posts: 1855
Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2006 5:20 pm
Location: South Carolina

Re: 'Our Culture Is Better'

Unread postby Jim Rutledge » Mon Dec 01, 2008 9:05 pm

WeaponOfMassInstruction wrote:IN the US Constitution, the right of government to seize land for the common good and to justly compensate the owner for the land is recognized and validated- "Eminent Domain" is the legal term. It has long been recognized that government could take land from its owner if the purpose to which the government would use the land were something that would benefit the common good- a road, bridge, hospital, etc.
But the Kelo v. New London decision by SCOTUS expanded the public good to include increasing the government's tax revenue. Clearly, there is no valid historical precedent to such a ruling...but that didn't stop SCOTUS from 'finding' one.
Those damn "emanations" from those damn "penumbra".


Weaps, It is amazing how you can continue to get things half-way right. Read Kelo v. New London again. The Supreme Court actually ruled in favor of "States Rights" in this case. They deferred to the Legislative Process, the WILL OF THE PEOPLE. Isn't that what they are supposed to do? Not be Legislators? Not be Activists? Or is only when they don't agree with you?

Jim Rutledge

p.s. I happen to think the seizure of land by The City of New London was horrible, and my state (Missouri) and others have taken constitutional steps to prevent such seizures. So it seems to be an issue left to the States. What's so bad with that?
Jim Rutledge
Media pundit
 
Posts: 566
Joined: Sun Apr 22, 2007 10:28 pm

Next

Return to General topics / current events

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot] and 1 guest

cron