Media Bias

[judojo]

What do you mean "you been telling us." You assume I'm a liberal. How about I agree the media is biased and they want Obama to win. I know that to be aboslutley true. Bernard showed that to be a group think that perpetrated a con job on the US. Do I sound liberal to you.
The religious poet John Milton wrote that you would most likely not find God by just listening to priests; too offten they were con artists.
If you cannot see that the whole Fox network progaming, news and opinion, sole objective is to fight for the right wing even if it harms the country; and if you refuse look at every one of its prgrams to see how they manipulate the truth of what they are propounding by pretending to be fair and balanced then you must be someone he is happy being coned as long as the give you information that conforms to your own beleifs. I'm different. I'm interested in the truth even if it conflicts with my own beleifs.

[Jeffreydan]

Every one of its programs? There are two things that came to mind as I read this:
1) You clearly haven't watched every one of its programs, unless you're talking about just the opinion-based ones. You won't get anywhere throwing newscasts in the pot.

2) I've watched most of the opinion shows. By and large Republican politicians, mostly the conservative ones, get more agreement from the hosts than the liberal ones. Combine that with the fact that the two men with the most power over FNC are conservative, and I'm puzzled by your "destructive con-job" characterization. I mean, if there is supposed to be some hidden con to get the GOP elected, they're pretty bad at hiding it. Or, if the con is just that they're conservative, then it actually isn't a con.
If it's simply the tagline "Fair & Balanced," then there is a little meat there, but just that: a little. It is arguable that their tagline would be more accurate if the liberals didn't have such little screen time compared to the conservatives. But it is no less arguable that the list of liberals that have graced the opinion programs have offered more than enough discussion from their side.

If your standard is screen time for the 2 opposing viewpoints is split 50-50 without fail, then Fair & Balanced is very wrong. If your standard is numerous high-profile liberals argue their side every week, not to mention others are invited on but refuse, and the network's flagship opinion show is hosted by a moderate whose worldview is a mixed bag, then it fits just fine.

If "destructive con job" is an apt description for FNC, then I have to wonder what phrase would apply to the likes of NBC & CBS, where even the newscasters range from liberal cheerleaders with a crush on democrat politicans, to nakedly obvious, driven activists bent on taking down Republicans.

[judojo]

What do you mean "youv'e been telling us." You assume I'm left. Is the media left and biased, totally; I learned that from Bernard. Are they in the tank for Obama, do they slant the news, absolutely. Sound left to you? I am about the truth of issues and I don't like being coned by anyone left or right. When the media cons it's dangerous for the nation. Bernard is part of a masterful con and he knows it. He knew it at CBS and he knows it at Fox. If you cannot see that Fox has a totally controled and directed agenda which, like the left's media, uses deception and lies to force their point of view, then you beleive they are honest and fair because they confirm your own beliefs. I want honest news and opinion even if they clash with my own politics and values. Remeber Jack Webb: "Just the facts mam." No con job. No dissembling. If it rains I don't want to hear Obama made it rain. If it snows I don't want to hear the right made it snow. Tell me the weather and I will determine for myself who or what made it rain or snow. I think this is a fair and balanced way to view the world. I don't like being dragged around by the nose.

[Jeffreydan]

To clarify, I never assumed you were a liberal, and for you to suggest that I'm in some way blinded by my ideology is a waste of your time and brain power.
I pretty much backed my position up in my previous post, but I could've also mentioned that on FNC Republican pols are not safe from criticism (even by Hannity) when they earn it, and certainly not safe from full news coverage when they misbehave.

Like I said before, your position is absolutely arguable re: the opinion shows, but unless you can give some specific examples of FNC's newscasters trying to help Republicans win, your contention that they're in the GOP tank ain't sellin'. In fairness, I only know that they've never demonstrated it when I've tuned in, and it's not like I watch every single newscast.

I'll understand if you can't cite anything as glaring as Dan Rather, but there should be something point-outable.

[judojo]

You sound very smart but foxy. Whatch the whole programming structer and it is like an orquestra playing "Balero". One goal in mind: repeat the same melody in many different forms but the object is the repitition. Fox has, as I now beleive you know, one goal and that is the defeat of Democrats. Tell me you don't see what I outline next.
Right wing anti Democrat anti Obama: OReilly (Who disembles more than any one on Fox, on par with Maxine Waters) Formerly, Beck.
Hannity. Megyn Kelly, Wallace. Most of Fox business. The morning show hosts.
Moderate Right wing: Baier, Vansustern.
Most fair and balanced: Smith. If I had the time I would prove my point of con job program by program. The whole network is no different than Cris Matthews. One point of view, one goal. Dishonest programming.

[Jeffreydan]

You sound very smart but foxy.

?!

Whatch the whole programming structer and it is like an orquestra playing "Balero". One goal in mind: repeat the same melody in many different forms but the object is the repitition. Fox has, as I now beleive you know, one goal and that is the defeat of Democrats.

Speaking of which, you already stated your position, so your "orquestra" can take five.

Tell me you don't see what I outline next.
Right wing anti Democrat anti Obama: OReilly (Who disembles more than any one on Fox, on par with Maxine Waters) Formerly, Beck.
Hannity. Megyn Kelly, Wallace. Most of Fox business. The morning show hosts.
Moderate Right wing: Baier, Vansustern.
Most fair and balanced: Smith. If I had the time I would prove my point of con job program by program. The whole network is no different than Cris Matthews. One point of view, one goal. Dishonest programming.

Actually, YOU didn't see what you outlined.

O' Reilly: only right-wing in some aspects, left in other ways, and has demonstrated he isn't just "anti-Obama."
Wallace: moderate democrat.
Van Susteran: moderate democrat
Your take on rest is accurate, although Baier's newscasts are above reproach, and you interestingly left out Geraldo Rivera.

You appear to have clarified your "con-job" tag. If FNC is in fact conducting a concerted effort to get the GOP elected then you shouldn't have any problem demonstrating it, so howzabout you replace all the accusations with examples? I remind you, it'll take more than just a lot of on-air talent leaning right. It's one thing for much of your staff to prefer the GOP, quite another for your entire network to be a carefully-planned coup against democrats.

[judojo]

You mention Geraldo: He was my lawyer once. His own man, free thinker and mainly left wing. Here is an example. The topics discussed on a regular basis focus on Fox's view of how terrible Obama is and then they put on guests to prove how bad he is. Go back to the beginning of his run. Fox said he and his wife did "radical fist bumps." The rant on Fox was that he was friends with and therefore might be a terroist.
Fox played up the birther movement on a daily basis.Fox supported the Tea Party movement like Mathews supported Obama with huge amounts of air time, but Fox says they were just covering the news. Hello! Con Jop par excelance. Beck said he hated white people. One of the most racist remarks that could have been made. Harks back to the blacks want to screw our woman days. Mr. Bill has been saying for two years, almost nightly, that Obama is doomed to fail and ruining the country and then will have a followup guest like Rove or Morris to talk about how right Mr. Bill is. Mr. B has one or two issues, like oil companies making too much money where he is less ultra right wing but he is the main con artist on the network because he maintains he is fair and balanced and just for the folks when in fact he is Mr. Roger's main point man and BFF of Beck. I don't have a replay of every program in my head to review with you, but this is so,so easy, I will watch and take notes ove the next few weeks and I will give you a dozen examples

[judojo]

Here is the more salient response to the point that Fox might be top heavy with right wingers but when they talk negativly about the left they don't lie. Let's say your correct and Fox is honest. (Remeber, my interest is in the whole truth of our disagreement) about everything its says about Demorats and the left. Here is why the argument is fallacious: A network decides to do a documentry about man. They hire thirty people, mostly misanthropes with one or two who are midly less misanthropic. For several years they give examples of how man kills men, women, children and even animals. They talk about all the wars, genocide, patricide, matricide, fratricde, infanticide. All of the stories they show are true, every example they proffer is true. Do we now have the true story of man? Is there more to man than these true facts demonstrate. Is there more to liberals, progressives, Democrats and Obama than your putative true facts that Fox generates dayly?
P.S. When Beck said repeatedly that progressives were realy communists and nazis in prgressive clothing, did you think he was telling the truth?

[Jeffreydan]

You haven't told me anything new. There are lots of conservatives/Republicans on FNC, they far outnumber liberals, and in fact you weren't spot-on in your assessment of the on-air talent.

You have failed to point out anything that would convince anyone, no matter whom, that the people in charge are running a conspiracy, a con-job on the viewer, to help put the GOP in power. Opinion shows like Beck's were/are about just that: opinion, and someone sharing his actual belief with you by definition is not lying. However, no matter how big a goofball Beck acted like, he did cite examples that led to his conclusions.
A newscast would be a pretty key place to attempt to con a viewer, no? Dan Rather thought so, as did Contessa Brewer. Is there anything underhanded Baier or Smith have done to harm a democrat or build up a Republican?

It just seems I have a more literal definition of con-job than you do, so don't worry about trying to prove your assertion.

[judojo]

You ignor the real issue which my metophor for Fox -- the documentry about man-- clearly shows: when viewing CNBC, CNN or Fox in totality and not understanding the organized directions those networks take for the left and right is to fall prey to manipulation. I will end where I began. Bernard Goldberg opened my eyes to libral bias and I was amazed. If was true and helped this country. For him to deny the same about Fox and help push a biased agenda harms this country.

[Jeffreydan]

You ignor the real issue which my metophor for Fox -- the documentry about man-- clearly shows: when viewing CNBC, CNN or Fox in totality and not understanding the organized directions those networks take for the left and right is to fall prey to manipulation. I will end where I began. Bernard Goldberg opened my eyes to libral bias and I was amazed. If was true and helped this country. For him to deny the same about Fox and help push a biased agenda harms this country.

You just don't get it, do you?
You didn't just point out that FNC has an awful lot of Republicans compared to democrats. You didn't just say that the network's tagline didn't match its programming. You accused Bernie of taking part in a CONSPIRACY, with a bunch of extremists! If you're going to make that kind of accusation, you only look foolish if you fail to back it up.

Next time, either come prepared to be challenged, or pick your words more carefully.

[judojo]

Last time I make the point. When any network show has a constant reporting, wether news or opinion that is negative about one party and its lleaders and when the network mainly shows one side of cultural issues that network has an agenda. You seem to accept this as long as it applies to the left. Bernard knows this is true: he used to be an in your face reporter that never allowed any one to bs or spin him. But oh has he changed: when Mr. Bill O said to him that everyone at Fox was fair and Balenced Bernard--like the old Bernard-- couldn't help himself and said "come on Bill, you know some people at Fox just hate Obama." Mr. Bill said that was not true. Like the old Bernard, Bernard said I can name several and Mr. Bill shut him down. He said, "we don't need to name anyone." And then he changed the subject. For 28 years at CBS Bernard would never have allowed any one on the air to spin him like that. Bernard was alway about the truth and that is why I was a big fan. Here is a great example. I asked him how Clinton could have cheated with Jenifer Flowers for 12 years and the media not know it. He said they did know but many of the reporters cheat and don't care unless the guy runs for president. He didn't say the left, to paraprase Bill O, are just a bunch of bomb throwing cooky adulters so they don't report on cheaters. He was about the truth. Now he is on the bandwagon crying to the syky that the left are communists, facists, ruinning the country, hate the country,are baby killers, a true follower of the Fox mantra. I don't know which is worse, watching Sharpton or Barnard! I just want the truth. If you don't understand my point then you either work for Fox or you are blinded by ideology. The Germans were conned and they accepeted it because they wanted to hear the bs that was being fed to them. I will never accept being conned by anyone. When Robert Novak said he never trusts the government he should have included the media.

[Jeffreydan]

If you don't understand my point then you either work for Fox or you are blinded by ideology.

How's the view from that high horse?

I'll make it very clear: the only one here who isn't getting it is YOU, and you haven't earned the right to be this arrogant.
You don't seem to recognize just how serious your accusation toward Bernie and FNC was, and how unimpressive your explanation was. If you're going to use words like "extremists", "destructive", and "con job" around here, you will get challenged to back up your contention. That's just how it works around here: the more serious the words, the more effort you're going to have to put into justifying them. Don't blame others for your failure to do that, and don't think that your own definition of words is the real definition. I know the difference between an extremist and someone who believes in their views passionately, you apparently don't.

You're expecting a lot less from yourself than Bernie. That is why your claims ain't selling here, not anything on my part. And unless you now have something to offer other than the same stubbornness and finger-pointing, you're not doing this thread any good.

[WeaponOfMassInstruction]

....and when the network mainly shows one side of cultural issues that network has an agenda.

I agree.

And you've just indicted MSNBC and not FNC.

I don't think that you'll find many folks who do not agree that Fox's on-air talents tend to lean right, just as you won't find anyone with half a brain that does not agree MSNBC's on-air 'talent' leans Left. But the difference between the two is that, outside of the rare day on "Morning Joe", you simply will not find conservative opinion being broadcast on MSNBC while you do multiple times each and every day on FNC. If the topic is, say, "Michelle Bachman: Good For America?", on Fox you'll have the host and someone on the Left and someone on the Right to debate the topic; on MSNBC, you will have the host and two people on the Left. You get far more liberal opinion on Fox News Channel than you get conservative opinion on MSNBC. That is an inarguable fact.

[concerned arizonan]

I would like to propose a TV truth hour to be aired on all TV stations throughout the US around 8 pm.

This station would have 4 15 minute (no advertising) segments to give the viewers facts about the latest news affecting "the people" (us).

Give us the FACTS only, about Herman Cain's sex harassment agreements.

Tell us the truth about the EPA loans to companies who are said to have contributed to Obama's campaign.

Tell us when someone in congress benefits from insider or outsider special favors.

What the facts are when a candidate makes a statement regarding a direct question.

If we the people could get factual information from a source that we know is credible our decisions would not depend
on speculation, "misstatements",or (my favorite) "not completely candid" information from all media sources.

And candidates and office holders would think twice about their actions and their words.

What a great way to inform the people who are supposed to be well enough informed to monitor their public servants and make decisions regarding the better candidate and office holder.

BUT WAIT...THAT STATION WOULD HAVE TO BE APPROVED BY CONGRESS SINCE IT COVERS ALL NEWS PRODUCERS....SORRY
IT WAS JUST AN IDEA!!!!