Franken vs. Goldberg

Discuss the various aspects of Bernard Goldberg's "Bias," the smash bestseller with all the inside baseball from one of their own! Discuss the various aspects of Arrogance, the 2nd NYT's bestseller.

Unread postby Tiffany » Sun Jan 08, 2006 12:55 am

CowboyBebop wrote:Actually, I find that people (my sister is the biggest culprit) also tend to use "ignorant" to mean rude. Your point was made, nonetheless Jay.

One time when I wasn't as nice as I am now . . . I feel like you and I have discussed my teenage attitude problem before, haven't we, Cowboy?

Anyway, when I was about seventeen, some guy in my humanities class asked me if I thought he was stupid. The things he'd been saying sounded pretty stupid and I proceeded to mouth off about it, which is how this whole thing happened.

So I told him, "Oh no, honey, you're not stupid. You're ignorant, and it's really not your fault."

OMG! You seriously would've thought I did something truly evil like told all my girl friends he was a date rapist. Or got pregnant and pretended my baby was his. That's how mad this dude was.

It caused a feud that, were I to see him in person today, I'm not certain would be over.

All b/c he didn't know what ignorant meant.

It was undoubtedly one of the stupidest things that has ever happened to me in my whole life. And all over nothing really.

Anyway, point being, ignorance is a word that I've found to be widely misunderstood.
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Unread postby Lurker » Wed Jan 11, 2006 11:07 pm

TheNun wrote:Goldberg's solution is to the culture getting more angry is to put out an attack book??

A friend of mine once said, "You think you are smart because you are right. It doesn't matter how smart or right you are if what you tell people offends them."

After which I gave her the following advice.

"If the truth pisses you off.. change what is true. Don't accuse the honest of attacking you so that you have an excuse to retaliate against the one who made you look at yourself... " ~ Lurker

Goldberg told the truth. If the truth feels like an attack and/or makes you angry.. there is a reason.
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Unread postby ryan-anderson » Fri May 12, 2006 8:18 am

In chapter 6 of 'Lies and the Lying Liars Who Tell Them: A Fair and Balanced Look at the Right', Franken discusses an appearance he and Bernard Goldberg (formerly of CBS News) both made on Phil Donahue's (now cancelled) show (1/6/03 on MSNBC). I saw the show myself (and also read the chapter about it in Franken's book where Franken basically pats himself on the back). Out of a dozen quotes that Goldberg published in his book 'Bias' Al chose to focus on this particular one. Al thought it was important that Goldberg didn't know the context of the quote (or what happened in the Soviet Union that day: an coup, by some of the old-guard hardliners). Whether Goldberg did or not is unimportant (as I shall demonstrate). Here's the quote:

"It's short of soap, so there are lice in hospitals. It's short of pantyhose, so women's legs go bare. It's short snowsuits, so babies stay home in winter...The problem isn't communism; nobody even talked about communism this week. The problem is shortages."
-- NBC's John Chancellor, August 21 1991.

Franken chastised Goldberg for not knowing (or at least not remembering) what happened in the Soviet Union (and for "attacking" John Chancellor who is deceased and cannot defend himself, although that didn't stop Al from trashing Reagan after he died). That's completely irrelevant. Chancellor was implying that they were having shortages because of 6 years of perestroika. That is ludicrous, the SHORTAGES WERE DUE TO 70 YEARS OF COMMUNIST MISMANAGEMENT! Franken and Chancellor wanted people to believe that communism was not to blame and Gorbachev could not use it as a scapegoat. (Does anyone with an IQ greater than 15 really believe that they could recover from decades of a corrupt, inefficient system in just 6 years?) So the Soviet Union had no shortages prior to perestroika? Bull. The url given below is to an article that documents several cases of shortages in the Soviet Union, and offers a further perspective on Franken's ludicrous statements. (It really isn't necessary: pretty much anyone over 40 has heard the stories of long lines in the old Soviet Union.) ... 1319.shtml

Here are some quotes from Goldberg's book 'Bias' that Franken chose not to discuss either on Donahue or in his book (and that ought to tell you something).

"I hope his wife feeds him lots of eggs and butter and he dies early like many black men do, of heart disease....He is an absolutely reprehensible person."
-- USA Today columnist and Pacifica Radio talk show host Julianne Malveaux on Justice Clarence Thomas, November 4 1994 PBS To the Contrary.

"I think he ought to be worried about what's going on in the Good Lord's mind, because if there is retributive justice, he'll get AIDS from a transfusion, or one of his grandchildren will get it."
-- National Public Radio and ABC News reporter Nina Totenberg reacting to Senator Jesse Helms' claim that the government spends too much on AIDS research, July 8 1995 Inside Washington.

"In the plague years of the 1980s -- that low decade of denial, indifference, hostility, opportunism, and idiocy -- government fiddled, medicine diddled, and the media were silent or hysterical. A gerontocratic Ronald Reagan took this [AIDS] plague less seriously than Gerald Ford had taken swine flu. After all, he didn't need the ghettos and he didn't want the gays."
-- CBS Sunday Morning TV critic John Leonard, Sept. 5 1993.

"I think liberalism lives -- the notion that we don't have to stay where we are as a society, we have promises to keep, and it is liberalism, whether people like it or not, which has animated all the years of my life. What on Earth did conservatism ever accomplish for our country? It was people who wanted to change things for the better."
-- Charles Kuralt talking with Morley Safer on the CBS special, One for the Road with Charles Kuralt, May 4 1994.

Here's one that should have been on Bernie's list, but wasn't:

"The new Republican majority in Congress took a big step today on its legislative agenda to demolish or damage government aid programs, many of them designed to help children and the poor."
-- Dan Rather, March 16 1995 CBS Evening News.

So, why won't Franken discuss any of THESE quotes? Could it be because they are indefensible examples of bias?
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Unread postby TerryAnne » Fri May 12, 2006 8:25 am

Good post! But I think it comes down to the fact that these breeds of Liberals are Commies in, whatever they can do to make Communism not look "that bad" (i.e. Stalin, Lenin), they will use it. I mean, who wants to be short of pantyhose when the next Liberal president gets elected. :wink:
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Unread postby MrSinatra » Fri May 12, 2006 12:55 pm

Bias is such a good book... i get so excited even thinking about it!
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