Creation versus evolution

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Creation versus evolution

Unread postby doin1964 » Thu Apr 26, 2007 11:58 am

I agree that creation has no place in science class, but I also believe it is equally important to emphasize that evolution is a mere theory - and a hard theory to swallow to boot.

The idea that our complex biology simply evolved from a single cell over billions of years takes more faith to believe than even creation.

How did the early beings decide that they needed eyeballs for example? and once they realized they needed eyeballs, how exactly did they figure out to build them?

Poppycock I say!
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Creation versus evolution

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Unread postby Cortese » Thu Apr 26, 2007 1:16 pm

I can't recall what my grade school biology text books said about evolution. I can't remember if they said it was a theory or just passed it off as fact. I personally don't care if evolution is taught in school. Only as long as it's made clear that it's a theory.

I had one college level biology course, micro biology. I was amazed at how cells work. Only certain amino acids will pair up with another (I think their letters were A, G, R, & T). Then those combinations form DNA which in turn make a protein which in turn tells the cell what to do. It's absolutely amazing at how all this came together so precisely.

But yeah, I agree with you that it takes more faith to believe that it all just happened randomly than to believe in a Creator.
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Unread postby John Gilchrist Lodge » Thu Apr 26, 2007 7:38 pm

Have to slightly disagree with the thread-starter. BOTH points of view need to be taught in the classroom. In fact, back in '86 (during my high school years), my bio teacher did teach both points of view. The Darwinists have had a virtual ideological monopoly in the classroom for all these years...now that their house of cards is about to collapse around them, they're running for cover, and firing inaccurate potshots at creationists while doing so. Nothing new here, folks.
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Unread postby Cortese » Thu Apr 26, 2007 8:50 pm

It's fairly easy to shoot holes in Darwin's tree. For example, one thing which causes his tree to flip upside down is the Cambrian Explosion. Where all of sudden lifeforms went from just simple worms to more sophisticated one such as vertebrates in the Cambrian period. That's the Cliff Notes version of course but it's just one example.
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Meh

Unread postby SinThetaDTheta » Thu Apr 26, 2007 9:15 pm

You know, when I was in school I didn't even think about it. I didn't care about it and I'm pretty sure I learned about.

The truth is your parents are going to teach you creationism anyway if you're born into a religious family. Darwinism is a theory, so is relativity. Science shouldn't stop at what we perceive anyway, so whether you "buy it" or not should not detach you from at least looking at the data, theory and feasibility.

I don't really care about this issue, I think all science should be taught, kids that can comprehend it can accept or decline it on it's own merit.
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Unread postby John Gilchrist Lodge » Fri Apr 27, 2007 9:16 pm

SinTheta, you're correct in stating that Darwinism is a theory...but its promulgators treat it like it's the most sacred of religious dogma. The adherents of biological macroevolution (like Richard Dawkins and his ilk) will defend it just as zealously as apologists of Christianity will defend the teachings of Christ. God help anyone who gets in the way of this abiogenesis (schoolboard of Kansas, anyone?).
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Originator's rebutal

Unread postby doin1964 » Fri Apr 27, 2007 11:06 pm

Folks,
Neither creation, evolution or any other theory have a place in science class - that was my point. Science should be limited to relative facts, and all theories of our origins belong in philosophy or humanities class.

Bottom line - we do NOT know our origins - PERIOD.

Like separation of church & state, let's separate fact from theory as taught in our schools.
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Unread postby Cortese » Sat Apr 28, 2007 7:39 am

I don't think that should be the case either. I mean, there are many different theories that should be at least presented in science class such as the Big Bang theory (even though I don't believe in that one either). Like I had said, these things can be presented as long as they're not passed off as fact.
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Re: Originator's rebutal

Unread postby John Gilchrist Lodge » Sat Apr 28, 2007 8:45 am

doin1964 wrote:Folks,
Neither creation, evolution or any other theory have a place in science class - that was my point. Science should be limited to relative facts, and all theories of our origins belong in philosophy or humanities class.

Bottom line - we do NOT know our origins - PERIOD.

Like separation of church & state, let's separate fact from theory as taught in our schools.


That might be a nifty idea in theory, but is not possible in practice. Darwinism has been so deeply inculculated within the minds of both science students and science teachers for so long, that it is treated as infallible, unquestionable fact.

Since it's here to stay, I believe the only responsibile course of action is to present every teaching on our origins. And for us to say "we have no idea," I'm not buying what you're selling there either. :roll:
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Unread postby steve1633 » Sun Apr 29, 2007 1:18 am

Darwinian evolution is not accepted as a fact at all. The only reason creationism isn't taught (and shouldn't be in my opinion) in science class is because it is religion not science. darwins theory is based on a large body of evidence, read the origin of species and tell me that his theory is full of wholes. Evolution is simply the theory we have currently that explains things the best but it is not accepted as fact and it is also not clearly wrong or full of wholes. Also, if you didn't teach theories in science class what would you teach? that's how science works, theories are devised and discussed and refined into better and better examples of truth
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Unread postby John Gilchrist Lodge » Sun Apr 29, 2007 1:56 am

Evolution predates Darwin by millennia, being postulated by Greek philosophers, et. al. IMO the philosophical basis and much of the religious basis for evolution are intertwined; therefore, this is a false assumption that there's no "religious" basis for evolution. It is upon this premise that other religions should have input in the curriculum of this country's schools' biology courses.
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Unread postby steve1633 » Sun Apr 29, 2007 5:02 pm

No religions should have any imput on our public schools' biology classes. Just like the findings of biology should not have an impact on religions classes. Evolution does not discount religion by any means, and for many people it provides a beautiful example of god's very existence and involvement in our lives, but religion and science are two different ways of representing our world and they should be taught as such. Only by looking at both of them can you understand the world on a wider scale but that doesn't mean that the conclusions of one should be taken as truth in the other.
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Unread postby JKersting » Sun Apr 29, 2007 5:52 pm

steve1633 wrote:No religions should have any imput on our public schools' biology classes. Just like the findings of biology should not have an impact on religions classes. Evolution does not discount religion by any means, and for many people it provides a beautiful example of god's very existence and involvement in our lives, but religion and science are two different ways of representing our world and they should be taught as such. Only by looking at both of them can you understand the world on a wider scale but that doesn't mean that the conclusions of one should be taken as truth in the other.


ABSOLUTELY 100% TRUE.

Biology should teach facts and relevent theories. Theories are a BIG part of the process known as science.

Where does religion belong in public schools? In private individual prayer, in small group prayer outside of the ciriculum and in a comparitive world religions class if such as class is offered. Otherwise, there is NO place for it. Not Judaism, Not Catholicism, Not any version or Protestantism, Not Mormonism, Not Hinduism, Not Islam, Not Buddism, Not Wiccanism, NOTHING.

Now, I think that evolution was caused by a God who wished to cover his tracks and leave room for faith. Of course, that is just a theory.
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Unread postby John Gilchrist Lodge » Mon Apr 30, 2007 4:36 am

steve1633 wrote:No religions should have any imput on our public schools' biology classes. Just like the findings of biology should not have an impact on religions classes. Evolution does not discount religion by any means, and for many people it provides a beautiful example of god's very existence and involvement in our lives, but religion and science are two different ways of representing our world and they should be taught as such. Only by looking at both of them can you understand the world on a wider scale but that doesn't mean that the conclusions of one should be taken as truth in the other.


Once more, this is some great THEORY, but is most likely not PRACTICAL. I still cannot recall any biology course I learned where the explanations and/or theories for the origins of life were not addressed in some way, shape, or form. Since pure science cannot, ironically enough, scientifically prove the origin of man and the universe (as this stuff cannot be tested under the Scientific Method, but must be believed--GASP! BY FAITH), religious dogma of the humanistic and atheistic stripe has long since dominated the educational arena. As a Christian, I object to being taught this stuff as dogma, and I defy ANYONE to inform me of a biology course being taught in, say, the last century where the origins of life were NOT addressed in such Darwinian fashion.

Every time rabid non-Christians object to Christians (and members of other faiths) introducing religious aspects of life's origins of the classroom, it is ironically the humanists and the atheists who are playing the hypocrite, conveniently silent when their own pet dogmas are ramrodded unchecked through the educational system.

Heck, I'm so open-minded that I'm not even asking for Darwinism/evolutionary theory/Panspermia/or whatever-the-heckism being promulgated by modern-day evolutionists be withdrawan from the educational system. All I'm asking for--no, DEMANDING--is equal time for my faith. Heck, I almost think that the rabid Darwinists are afraid of something--maybe the tumbling-down house of cards that comprises one of the chief "tenets" of Atheism be revealed as it is--the Emperor with no clothes.
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Creation vs Evolution

Unread postby MphsBo » Mon May 21, 2007 2:43 pm

Great discussion on this thread. It's pretty rare that you can get good discussion without at least one person running of the deep end and just making everyone mad.

The problem, as Christians see it, is that evolution is just as much of an unproven science as intelligent design. In fact, not a shred of evidence can be found to show that we can from sludge or apes, or whatever. But now kids aren't even free to pray in groups in school. And kids as early as kindergarden & 1st grade are learning how to properly use condoms.

As a christian, I'm not looking for the school or the goverment to impose morality on my child, but please don't tell me that creationism has no business in the classroom b/c it's a religion, when evolution is no less of belief in certain events without ANY factual evidence to back it up.
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