Moderate Muslims

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Re: Moderate Muslims

Unread postby Red » Tue Jun 10, 2008 9:51 am

CWNelson79 wrote:I don't think they exist. Like bigfoot or the lockness monster. You hear about them, and some even claim to have seen them, but they are no where to be found.

Besides, The religion of Islam is based on terrorism. The Koran tells them to be terrorists. This is not news. Muslims have always been terrorists through out history. Starting back with Ishmael to the present. God chose the jews as his chosen people and Ishmael was the other kid, the red headed step child. And muslims to this day are still fighting God's chosen people. If you want to know where anti semetic behavior comes from then look no further than the devil and his hate of God.

The muslims, who by the way their false god allah started as some moon god. They will stop at nothing to kill off christians and jews. Like all the other pagans the Israelites had to deal with. Except these guys are still around. The palestinian people who are not even a real people, they have no claim to Israel, none whatsoever. Israel has always been and will always be the Jewish people's land. Anything else if garbage, and the arabs need to back off. They won't tho, thats for sure. They can't, their false god won't let them.

I would have to say also, the difference between the whites in the old south,and the muslims you got going now. The whites were not following some radical false religion. The whites were not doing what they did because Allah told them to. You can't ever change the muslim attitude without getting rid of islam altogether. The ones who don't terrorize or support the terrorist are actually the muslims who don't follow their religion like it was set out to be followed. The terrorists are the true muslims, and are doing what their religion and their book tell them to do.

In the end, the truth sets you free. Instead of garbage about Christians and jews worshiping the same god as the muslims. And people told blatant false hoods about it being a religion of peace. People need to know what they are dealing with and come to terms with this reality of islam. The whole can't we all get along apporach will not work.


I suppose that no one asked me, but I fine this statement to be not only offensive and hateful, but ultimately untrue. Yes, the terrorists that we fight happen to be Muslim, but I also have many Muslim friends and during my time overseas and stateside I've found the people who live in Muslim countries and practice the religion to be quite tolerant. As a matter of fact, one of my best friends is a Muslim. I get along with Muslims and I'm a Catholic, pork-eating, Soldier. You are terribly misguided in your judgement of an entire group of people.
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Re: Moderate Muslims

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Unread postby CWNelson79 » Tue Jun 10, 2008 10:12 am

You can find the statement to be anything you like. But i stick by it. Islam is a religion of terrorism, and thats why muslims do what they do. The Koran tells them to act this way. Have all the muslim friends you want, but that doesn't change what islam is. It is a false religion, and it is an evil religion. If any muslim chooses to be tolerant, they are doing so away from the will of their false god allah and their koran.
"Am I therefore become your enemy, because I tell you the truth?"
Gal. 4:16
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Unread postby WeaponOfMassInstruction » Tue Jun 10, 2008 9:04 pm

CW-

I've made the following observation on this topic a number of times before (and I apologize for belaboring the point to those who've read it before) but, as you probably haven't read it and you have a far more religious viewpoint than I, I thought it might be worth getting your comments on it.

I've said before that what Islam is missing is a "New Testament".

Your take on that thought?
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Unread postby CWNelson79 » Tue Jun 10, 2008 10:42 pm

The problem is, Islam can't be anymore then it is. It is a false religion who unlike the bible which is the word of the real and only God, is man made or even possibly demon made.


They can't have a new testament because their allah does not care enough about them to come to earth as a human and suffer for their sins.
Jesus who is God came to live as a lowly human because thats how much God cares about us. Their allah is a task master who may or may not let them into their heaven based on a whim.

If a muslim wants any hope they must fully turn away from islam. They must accept Jesus as lord and savior, and reject their false god allah. Thats is the worlds only hope, and muslims are no different.


The devil works in many ways to attack God and his word. THrough false religions, secular christianity, the occult, UFo's, ghosts, man made traditions that contradict the bible. Its all how the devil and his fallen angels work.


In the end the only thing that can free a person is Jesus. There is no other way.
"Am I therefore become your enemy, because I tell you the truth?"
Gal. 4:16
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Unread postby WeaponOfMassInstruction » Wed Jun 11, 2008 4:37 pm

I think you may have missed the context of my question.

I think that you'd agree that, if Christianity (I concede the anachronism here) were still modeled on the Old Testament, it would be quite the different world.

Islam still follows the 'Old Testament'. I've not read the Qu'ran but nothing I have read about it promises any sort of Islamic 'New Covenant" or any 'messiah' following Mohammed. That being the case, I can't muster any great hope for 'modernizing Islam'. I only make the observation that they- and the rest of the world- would be far better off if they did.
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Unread postby Red » Thu Jun 12, 2008 8:55 am

What you implied CW is that there are no moderate Muslims. That statement is false, period. I didn't get into the religion of it with you. Yes I believe that anything not from God through Christ is evil. That's not the point. You stated, "Moderate Muslims, I don't think they exist. Like bigfoot or the lockness monster. You hear about them, and some even claim to have seen them, but they are no where to be found.." That statement is false. I know many moderte Muslims. I talk religion with some of them. I pull guard shift with some of them. I work with them and see them every day. Most are quite moderate. As a matter of fact, I would venture to say that many I've met are more moderate than you. At least that's what I get from your posts.

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Unread postby CWNelson79 » Thu Jun 12, 2008 9:02 am

Its a false religion. So being moderate or not just means they are not following this false religion to its conclusion. But being moderate openly and then secretly supporting terrorists is another thing. I do not trust muslims as far as i could throw them. You can have your slumber party with them if you like, but i won't. And saying they are more moderate to me is apples and oranges. I follow the bible, the real word of God, they do not. Why would i be morderate if i am following God's word? The answer is that you would not.


Weapons, the point i was making is that islam can't do anything else since its false. The bible is accurate and were real events. Trying to compare islam to christianity doesn't work since one is real and the other false. Islam has no hope because they have no Jesus to save them.
"Am I therefore become your enemy, because I tell you the truth?"
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Unread postby Red » Thu Jun 12, 2008 9:13 am

You didn't defend your thesis. The thesis is that Muslims aren't moderate. I can therefore conclude that you think that they're all hard-core. I can say beyond the shadow of a doubt that your thesis is false. Yes there are some who will kill for their religion. You find those in all religions. Even humanism. Even Christianity. Those people, like yourself, believe that they are totally and completely right. That's why we call them extremists. If they didn't think that they were totally and completely right, they wouldn't think they had the authority to take life, sometimes including their own. Are all Muslims like this? Are all Christians like this? Absolutely not. You can find a few in all religions. They are usually outcasts for a reason.

I'm not saying that Islam is a good religion. All I'm saying is that your thesis is false. There are "moderate" muslims out there. Many more are moderate, than aren't.

Besides, this war to them isn't so much about religion as it is about power. The Taliban and Al-Quaida want it. No one else wants them to have it.

BTW... This isn't exactly a slumber party. I lose people I know every week. I've never lost a friend to a slumber party.
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Unread postby CWNelson79 » Thu Jun 12, 2008 9:36 am

Let me put it this way, the majority of muslims i believe to not be moderate or only act that way on the surface. Sure you may have a few, but if the majority were like that then terrorism could not thrive.


UNlike christianity tho, islam is a false religion. The Koran promotes terrorism. The bible does not. When a Christian does something wrong its unbiblical, but when a muslim does it then they are just following their koran and allah. Thats the difference. Terrorists are not outcasts in muslim lands. Again, you compare apples and oranges, the two do not meet.


I would say many more are not moderate then are, or even secretly not moderate.



Slumber parties can be brutal.
"Am I therefore become your enemy, because I tell you the truth?"
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Unread postby Topher » Thu Jun 12, 2008 9:55 am

Have you read the Qu'ran, CW?

Like the Bible, there are contradictions. For example, we have Surah 43:88-89 - And he saith: O my Lord! Lo! these are a folk who believe not. Then bear with them (O Muhammad) and say: Peace. But they will come to know.

Islam, however, has a doctrine of abrogation, where a later prophecy can replace an earlier one. As most of the calls for violence against non-believers were earlier prophecies, these were most often replaced in later books. Not all Muslims accept this, which is why many of the calls for violence against non-believers are accepted rather than taken with a grain of salt.

The principle in the Qu'ran is very similar to a theme in the Bible: Allah/God will punish non-believers. You should do your best to help them avoid this fate, but ultimately, it is Allah's/God's responsibility.

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Unread postby steve1633 » Thu Jun 12, 2008 2:04 pm

on your question weapons, the qu'ran represents the newest testament. Like the christian new testament it is an update to the story of the judeo christian god and his prophets. While they may not accept jesus as the messiah they do see him as an important prophet of allah and would view the new testament much the way christians view the old testament, a collection of stories that can help direct you but not something to be taken as absolute since it has been updated by mohammed.
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Unread postby CWNelson79 » Thu Jun 12, 2008 2:19 pm

"Am I therefore become your enemy, because I tell you the truth?"
Gal. 4:16
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islam subject

Unread postby WILLCONSERVTV99 » Thu Jun 12, 2008 8:00 pm

CWNelson79 wrote:Let me put it this way, the majority of muslims i believe to not be moderate or only act that way on the surface. Sure you may have a few, but if the majority were like that then terrorism could not thrive.


UNlike christianity tho, islam is a false religion. The Koran promotes terrorism. The bible does not. When a Christian does something wrong its unbiblical, but when a muslim does it then they are just following their koran and allah. Thats the difference. Terrorists are not outcasts in muslim lands. Again, you compare apples and oranges, the two do not meet.


I would say many more are not moderate then are, or even secretly not moderate.
I agree w you that islam ia false religion. Perhaps the best point to make
on a site like this is to remind others that: In a post-9/11 environment, it
is in the best interest of AMERICANS {who are concerned about terrorist
attacks on USA soil} to vote for a candidate that is CHRISTIAN {including
those pretending to be Christian}, or Jewish, because the
"Fear Of GOD" in such a candidate will make that candidate
"more likely" to support national-security measures that will help reduce
the odds of terrorist attacks on USA soil.
In contrast, the Liberal islam politician that is in the US House-of-Rep's
{from Minnesota, sorry, I forgot his name} is much "less likely" to
support such measures.Whether a US voter "Fears GOD or NOT", it is in
the best-interest of that voter to vote for the candidate that
"Fears the real {and only true} GOD {of the Bible} the most".



Slumber parties can be brutal.
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Unread postby WeaponOfMassInstruction » Fri Jun 13, 2008 7:05 pm

steve-

That's more the response I was trying to elicit.

I understand CW's thought process here. I might offend him with the following statement- and I apologize if I do- but here goes:

CW's interpretation of Christianity tells him that it is pointless to discuss the merits of any religion other than Christianity (and perhaps Judaism to an extent) because all other religions are false ones and thus not worthy of discussion. I don't agree, but I see where he's coming from.

I see Islam as a religion that is roughly analogous to the pre-Jesus religion that became Christianity. The Old Testament paints God as being jealous and, frankly, somewhat spiteful and perhaps a bit resentful that humans, which He created, could so muck things up. The Old Testament God was also not above obtaining more followers through the occasional (or more than occasional) us of violence or other coercive means.

But the New Testament supplants that version of God, at leat to my mind. Jesus brought a new way of being rewarded in the Afterlife that didn;t require anything more than admitting that one sins, being truly contrite for one's sins and asking God for forgiveness for falling short of His ideal. The paths for reward in the Old Testament, many of them, as I said, coercive and/or violent in nature, were not only replaced by more genteel and personal methods but indeed the old paths were changed to being dead ends.

Islam needs its version of Jesus Christ.....Someone who updates the way to Heaven and removes Islam's current coercive and violent path to reward.
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Unread postby Jim Rutledge » Fri Jun 13, 2008 10:48 pm

Red wrote:Yes I believe that anything not from God through Christ is evil. That's not the point.

Well maybe that is part of the point. Just call me evil, but I just don't deserve it.

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