Congratulations Bernard Goldberg!

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Congratulations Bernard Goldberg!

Unread postby radioradio » Tue Feb 10, 2009 4:20 pm

http://www.knoxnews.com/news/2009/feb/09/knoxville-church-shooter-was-hate-crime/
"This was a symbolic killing," Adkisson wrote. "Who I wanted to kill was every Democrat in the Senate and House, the 100 people in Bernard Goldberg's book. I'd like to kill everyone in the mainstream media. But I knew these people were inaccessible to me.

"I couldn't get to the generals and high-ranking officers of the Marxist movement so I went after the foot soldiers, the chicken (expletive) liberals that vote in these traitorous people."

Goldberg, a former CBS News correspondent, wrote a book titled "100 People Who Are Screwing Up America: (and Al Franken Is #37)" that includes many left-leaning public figures but also includes people such as right-wing talk radio host Michael Savage, citing his anti-gay sentiments, and Roy Moore, the former Alabama justice removed from the bench for refusing to take down a monument to the Ten Commandments.

Adkisson devotes one page of his manifesto to the Unitarian Universalist Church itself. The grandfather-turned-killer once attended TVUUC with his now ex-wife.

"I'd like someone to do an expose on this church," he wrote. "It's a den of un-American vipers.'
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Congratulations Bernard Goldberg!

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Re: Congratulations Bernard Goldberg!

Unread postby MrSinatra » Tue Feb 10, 2009 4:27 pm

gimmie a break.

so b/c some nut does something nutty and cites Bernie, you come on here and post this smary post?

let me clue you in... there are plenty, PLENTY of leftwing nuts who have done analogous things and cited their leftwing heroes and those people AREN'T RESPONSIBLE for what the nuts do EITHER.

get a clue.
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Re: Congratulations Bernard Goldberg!

Unread postby Markm5 » Tue Feb 10, 2009 9:42 pm

Mr. Goldberg:

It has been just four short years since the book 100 People who are Screwing up America...was published. The interesting (frightening) thing is, at the time the book went to print, none of the incompetent boobs now in the Whitehouse or on the Whitehouse staff, et. al., were even on the radar sceen. I am of the opinion the current state of the U.S./global economy happens to be a distractor for the true goal...power. What better smoke screen to take control of the U.S. (or more), than a "pot hole" in the financial sector as the means of throttling the weak minded. By the time they have a clue that liberty is lost, it will be too late.

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Re: Congratulations Bernard Goldberg!

Unread postby Hard Justice » Wed Feb 11, 2009 4:18 pm

there are plenty, PLENTY of leftwing nuts who have done analogous things

Really? Name them. And none of this 'analagous' B.S.. No apples to oranges. Give us specific examples within the past ten years where liberals have gone out and murdered or wounded multiple people. Let's compare the number of killings on behalf of right-wing ideology versus left-wing ideology, shall we? You name one left-wing incident, I'll name one right-wing incident. I guarantee you'll run out of examples before I do.

so b/c some nut does something nutty and cites Bernie

He was not crazy. After evaluation of the evidence Adkisson was deemed fit for trial. His legal representation did not put forth an insanity defense. Crazy? No. Hateful and determined, yes. And the original poster has every right to confront the author on the repercussions of his work. Golberg isn't an accessory to murder, but if he denies that he had an influence on Adkisson -- even if unintentional -- then he is a liar. People need to man-up and take responsiblity for their words.
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Re: Congratulations Bernard Goldberg!

Unread postby Apokalupsis » Wed Feb 11, 2009 6:17 pm

Hard Justice wrote:Really? Name them. And none of this 'analagous' B.S.. No apples to oranges. Give us specific examples within the past ten years where liberals have gone out and murdered or wounded multiple people. Let's compare the number of killings on behalf of right-wing ideology versus left-wing ideology, shall we? You name one left-wing incident, I'll name one right-wing incident. I guarantee you'll run out of examples before I do.


Do acts of eco-terrorism count? There have been hundreds of such acts, costing in the hundreds of millions of dollars. Although I don't think anybody has been killed -- yet -- it hasn't been because of an excess of caution on the part of the ecoterrorists. I think it's safe to assume that these folks aren't centrist or right-wing. See this link:

http://www.adl.org/learn/ext_us/ecoterrorism.asp

Oh, wait, I forgot about the Weather Underground. You know, the guys who still express hatred for America and wish they could have done more? If they didn't kill anybody, it wasn't because they didn't try. I was at The American University when the SDS took over a building. They were some hateful people.

Most left-wingers are content with just expressing death wishes about those they hate (e.g., Cheney, Bush, Rove, Limbaugh, Hannity, ad infinitum) or celebrating the actual deaths of those they hated (e.g., Tony Snow, William F. Buckley, ad infinitum). Still, I suppose that hoping for or celebrating the demise of those with whom one disagrees politically isn't on the same level with actually shooting a stranger. Unless one examines the heart, that is.
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Re: Congratulations Bernard Goldberg!

Unread postby Hard Justice » Wed Feb 11, 2009 7:13 pm

Do acts of eco-terrorism count?

Not unless you cite an instance where someone was killed (I believe there have be one or two cases). Property can be replaced, human life cannot. Again, apples to oranges.

Oh, wait, I forgot about the Weather Underground.

Yes, I believe several people were killed/maimed. No doubt WG were a bunch of douchebags. But I said the past ten years. If you want to go all the way back to the seventies, I can probably find examples that far back.

Most left-wingers are content with just expressing death wishes about those they hate

Broad generalization which I assert is false. I would assert the same if you said it about right-wingers.

I suppose that hoping for or celebrating the demise of those with whom one disagrees politically isn't on the same level with actually shooting a stranger. Unless one examines the heart, that is.

It depends on the person, but I think in some cases you are spot-on. Some people may think about it and wouldn't act because they know it's wrong. Some people may think about it and wonder where the nearest gun shop is.
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Re: Congratulations Bernard Goldberg!

Unread postby MrSinatra » Thu Feb 12, 2009 1:00 am

look up "Move" from philadelphia.

what about patty hearsts group?

and don't underestimate that the press under-reports it when lefties do it.

but regardless, you are like the parents blaming ozzy osbourne when thier son kills himself, its absurd.
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Re: Congratulations Bernard Goldberg!

Unread postby Hard Justice » Thu Feb 12, 2009 3:08 am

look up "Move" from philadelphia.

Look up Eric Robert Rudolph

what about patty hearsts group?

What about Keith Luke?

and don't underestimate that the press under-reports it when lefties do it.

Are you implying that killing sprees perpetrated by left-wing idealogues are swept under the rug? With right-wing radio pundits like Rush Limbaugh in every major market in America, you think any news story involving a violent liberal dumbass is going to escape the news cycle?

but regardless, you are like the parents blaming ozzy osbourne when thier son kills himself, its absurd.

An innacurate comparison. Ozzy's lyrics never said 'you are responsible for screwing things up, kill yourself.' Ozzy never hung blame on the listener. Goldberg singles out specific individuals and hangs blame on them. Big difference. Plus you imply I hold Goldberg responsible. I never said that. I do not blame Goldberg. Goldberg did not tell people to kill his top 100. I'm saying he had an influence on Adkisson, whether he wanted to or not. For better or for worse, he writes books that affect people's beliefs and behavior.

BTW, people reading this post may assume I'm some kind of bleeding-heart liberal. You might assume I am the enemy. This preconception amuses me. However, I am not trying to troll here. You (MrSinatra) and Apokalupsi have made points, I have made counterpoints. No personal attacks between us, just reasonable, rational discussion/debate. I like that. This is how people with differing views find common ground. I'd like to see more of that going on in the nation and on the internet.
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Re: Congratulations Bernard Goldberg!

Unread postby MrSinatra » Thu Feb 12, 2009 3:39 am

Hard Justice wrote:
look up "Move" from philadelphia.

Look up Eric Robert Rudolph


the difference between liberals and conservatives is that conservatives disown their eric rudulphs. the left doesn't disown their bill ayers, their "ELF" freaks, or other rioters, their blank panthers, etc...

Hard Justice wrote:
what about patty hearsts group?

What about Keith Luke?


never heard of him but fine.

i could really care less, just b/c this incident is recent its still MEANINGLESS. will you be around when some leftie does it most recently, if in fact it gets reported as such?

Hard Justice wrote:
and don't underestimate that the press under-reports it when lefties do it.

Are you implying that killing sprees perpetrated by left-wing idealogues are swept under the rug?


implying? no, i'm SAYING that it would not surprise me at all to see the press not report THOSE facts, b/c in THOSE cases, they wouldn't see it as "salient" but i am positive they always find it salient in cases where a rightie can be tarred.

Hard Justice wrote:With right-wing radio pundits like Rush Limbaugh in every major market in America, you think any news story involving a violent liberal dumbass is going to escape the news cycle?


the violence won't, the affiliation might.

Hard Justice wrote:
but regardless, you are like the parents blaming ozzy osbourne when thier son kills himself, its absurd.

An innacurate comparison. Ozzy's lyrics never said 'you are responsible for screwing things up, kill yourself.' Ozzy never hung blame on the listener.


ever hear "suicide solution?" the parents see it differntly. i don't think they have a leg to stand on however, and i don't think you do either.

Hard Justice wrote:Goldberg singles out specific individuals and hangs blame on them. Big difference.


so he shouldn't do that? is that your "point?"

no one should do that lest some nut supposedly is inspired to kill them, or others not even in the book? what sense does that make?

Hard Justice wrote:Plus you imply I hold Goldberg responsible. I never said that. I do not blame Goldberg. Goldberg did not tell people to kill his top 100. I'm saying he had an influence on Adkisson, whether he wanted to or not. For better or for worse, he writes books that affect people's beliefs and behavior.


so what? so should we pull suicide solution from the shelves? grand theft auto? i bet the guy had a bible and a travel guide, maybe they should be pulled too? or should we let a nut decide for us whats "dangerous" reading or not?

Hard Justice wrote:BTW, people reading this post may assume I'm some kind of bleeding-heart liberal. You might assume I am the enemy. This preconception amuses me. However, I am not trying to troll here. You (MrSinatra) and Apokalupsi have made points, I have made counterpoints. No personal attacks between us, just reasonable, rational discussion/debate. I like that. This is how people with differing views find common ground. I'd like to see more of that going on in the nation and on the internet.


thats what we do here, this is a civil forum; i simply assume you are mistaken, b/c i see no logic to support your view that goldberg, ozzy, the bible, or video games lie at the root of some nut killing people.
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Re: Congratulations Bernard Goldberg!

Unread postby Hard Justice » Fri Feb 13, 2009 3:28 am

the difference between liberals and conservatives is that conservatives disown their Eric Rudulphs

I disagree strongly. Maybe I'm in the minority but I don't know of a single Lefty who embraces the actions of ELF or the Black Panthers. Ayers? Douchebag.

will you be around when some leftie does it most recently

Absolutely. Resorting to violence because of ideological differences earns an automatic FAIL in my book. In the context of a democratic society, if you can't resolve the conflict with brains and resort to guns, bombs (or in the case of the dipstick who tried to run over Katherine Harris, an automobile) then you're taking the coward's route.

I see no logic to support your view that Goldberg, oozy, the bible, or video games lie at the root of some nut killing people.


Again that is not my view. I am adamantly against pulling games or books or movies off the shelf.

Regardless of our differences, I concede your point MrSinatra. I had a discussion on the matter tonight with some friends over beer. The crux of it is that I am not sure what my point is, but that these kinds of incidents instill me with a profound disquietude. They cannot be framed by logic, because even though Adkisson is not technically insane there is no way his actions can be deemed logical. I have been trying to frame a moral/philosophical conundrum in terms of logic but they are not always mutually inclusive. I don't like the idea of a book singling out 100 people as potential targets, but they are only targets if the person reading the book deems them so. I don't think Goldberg is irresponsible. But I am deeply concerned about what I perceive as an exponentially polarizing trend in print and television. I think there are many people like me who believe that there needs to be less rhetoric and scapegoating and more dialog, which I am pleased to say is what you and I have been having.

I posit that one of the underlying issues is that the media - and to a lesser extent the internet - create a uni-directional flow of ideas that stymies our ability to connect with people and find common ground. Can we agree on that much?

You've also reminded me I need to listen to old Ozzy again because he rocks.

Cheers,
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Re: Congratulations Bernard Goldberg!

Unread postby JKersting » Sat Feb 14, 2009 2:27 pm

I guess I should jump in here and take some of the blame.

It was ME who put Bernie on the air in Knoxville back in 2005. Had him on my Sunday morning show...back to back to back weeks (the recorded interview that was posted on this site). And then I had him on our weekday show and later on my Saturday show in the summer of 2005.

So, if Bernie is to blame for these shootings, then I must be as culpable as Bernie is because I helped him sell some books there, possibly to the gunman himself.

In other words, the argument is INSANE!!!!

Adkisson is NUTS!!! PERIOD!!! He is responsible for his actions, not Bernard Goldberg and not Jay Kersting.

Got that off my chest...back to important things...like finding a new job.... :roll:
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